With the publication of Dr Joanne Paul’s most recent book, Thomas More: A Life and Death in Tudor England, we are very excited to welcome Joanne to The Tudor Notebook.
interviewed Joanne to discuss history, research, and of course, Thomas More.
Tell us a little about yourself please
I am a writer and historian, and I dabble in a bit of broadcasting and consultancy as well. My area of expertise is the Early Modern Period, largely the Tudors and Stuarts. I was trained as an intellectual historian and did my PhD at Queen Mary, University of London with the esteemed Professor Quentin Skinner. In 2022 I made the decision to leave my academic post and go freelance – though I still remain an Honorary Associate Professor at the University of Sussex. I published my first trade book, The House of Dudley that year, and have followed up with my latest book, a biography of Thomas More, this year.
I am also a Canadian, a mom and a vast repository of Buffy trivia.
What inspired your interest in history?
My mom read a lot to me when I was little, books like The Chronicles of Narnia, Little Women, Anne of Green Gables and Little House on the Prairie. Each of these has their roots in history, and I think that’s where it all started for me. So it was more the story-telling side that first drew me in.
I’ve read your latest book, a biography of Thomas More and loved it - What drew you to Thomas More as a subject?
I had to be convinced! I wrote my first book on More shortly after finishing my PhD, after a friend who was an editor asked me if I would, as More had featured in my doctoral research. I had resisted, given how controversial I knew More to be, but this was a short book about his thought and writings, and so I thought I could avoid getting into the big biographical discussions.
This book came out in line with the quincentenary of More’s Utopia in 2016, so I was invited to a number of events marking the anniversary. It soon became clear that there was a real need for a new biography. It took another 5 years or so, however, for me to realize that I was the one who needed to write it! As I got into the project, I was so pleased that I did.
I was particularly interested in reading about More’s early life, in the area around Cripplegate without. Was this part of his life easy to trace in the historical record?
Not at all. I thought I’d never finish the book as I spent ages on trying to figure out where he was born! Most will tell you (and there’s a plaque!) that More was born on Milk Street in Cheapside, but as I came to realize, this was based on a biography written 150 years later, which was rife with inaccuracies. More’s father probably did live there, but much later, so the question became, where was he when More was born? We know that More’s parents were married at St Giles without Cripplegate and I spent ages searching the archives to see if I could narrow it down at all. The hint actually comes from More’s History of Richard III, when he mentions Redcross Street. Fortunately, there’s been some great work recently on that area of London, so I was able to rely on that to give his story texture, once I was able to pin him down.
Where did you begin your research?
The scaffolding of the research was, of course, the existing work on More, but I was keen to question everything we think we knew (such as the birthplace). So that meant a lot of work in the archives. I was able to spend several days with the Mercers’ archive, for instance, as well as frequent visits to The National Archives and London Metropolitan Archives, especially when it came to More’s early years. I made very good use of the State Papers and British History online repositories as well!
The destruction of most of Thomas More’s papers has hampered previous historians. How did you work around this? And what primary source concerning More that you feel is the most valuable?
This is a challenge. Fortunately, we do have almost all his written works and a great number of his letters, many of which were retrieved by his family. His official letters as well, for instance to Wolsey during his time as Secretary, are preserved. My intention in this biography was to tell More’s story as much as possible in his own words. Not because I think he is a reliable source for ‘what actually happened’, but because that is often the best insight into a person’s mind, even if (or especially if?) they are cultivating the presentation of their character for an audience.
I really enjoyed your description of Campeggios arrival. What is your opinion of him? And do you think he always intended to defer judgement back to Rome?
The pope – like so many politicians then as now! – was a temporiser, and I think wanted delay to be the order of the day, and it worked.
What is the one thing you would like people to take away from your biography of More?
That under all the mythologising he was a complicated very human individual living in complicated times
.
What do you think was his strongest trait, and his weakest?
His strongest was his mind, his wit, expressed through his pen. He was brilliant and prolific, and when writing about him I often had the line from Hamilton “why do you write like you’re running out of time?” running through my head. There are similarities there.
More let his fear get the better of him. He was terrified of divisions in society and what they would mean (massacres, anarchy) and saw this in Lutheranism. He believed the worst of what he was told about their role in political events (such as the German Peasants’ War and the Sack of Rome). This fear led to a profound hatred, that sowed more division, I think, than it eliminated.
Are there other eras of history you have an interest in? If so, which and would you expand your current writing to include it?
Watch this space!
What piece of advice would you give someone wishing to start writing?
Fuel your creativity and give it space to roam. Find your inner voice by clearing your mind of other voices for at least a little while every day and do it near a writing pad. I think especially non-fiction writers think of themselves more as technicians, but we’re artists too, and I think sometimes that’s easy to forget.
Can you tell us your most memorable moment relating to your writing/history career
I’ve been very lucky to have some wonderful, exciting opportunities, so I’ll just share the first that comes to mind. It was my first event for The House of Dudley and it was at Kenilworth Castle. I’d not had the chance to visit while writing, due to COVID, so it was thrilling to me to be there. We did the event, I signed books and everyone headed off. I popped to the loo before the drive home, and when I came out just a moment later, everything was locked up. I couldn’t get out of the castle grounds and the sunlight was almost gone! Fortunately, from behind the iron gate, I managed to get someone’s attention, and they freed me. But I almost spent a night among the ruins….
Are you working on anything at the moment? If so, can you spill the beans a little?
Yes I am and no I can’t!
Where can people find you?
www.JoannePaul.com and Instagram (@DrJoannePaul)
We do hope you have enjoyed this guest post, I am now wondering if I still have my copy of Anne of Green Gables, it was a favourite of mine as a child. Rebecca and I are certainly intrigued by Joanne’s response about current work so will be keeping our eyes peeled!
If you haven’t yet read Thomas More, you may be interested in reading Rebecca’s review.
We have more book reviews, guest posts, and history content coming up and in the near future will be doing a video post together to have a chat.
Great interview. House of Dudley has been on my wish list, and now I'm excited to add another!